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Aristides's avatar

Great article. I’m an Evangelical Republican that’s voted against Trump 5 times, and your analysis matches my experience. It’s been difficult to find evangelical churches that don’t preach politics, and even those, 10% of the members are still conspiracy theorists. I’ll keep voting for the most Christian candidate in the primaries, but I’ve lost faith that they will ever win a primary. I’m hoping for the next Great Awakening, but I feel like that’s 20 years out.

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Walter's avatar

I don't think it's, like, a special case. This is just an example of a general case that is everywhere. Quick exercise to illustrate.

So, you are pro life, yeah? In this example I mean. Put yourself there, deep breaths, fire up the ole empathy. It's not hard. You are a righteous warrior for babies. You are up against a death cult that thrives on the slaughter of infants, google the images if you have a strong stomach. Pro choice/death peeps are monsters. Fix that in your mind. They wake up early, and they don't go to bed until they've made sure that at least one baby has its brains scooped out. They give to charities to send workers to developing nations to make sure the slaughter continues. Straight goblin energy. Evil elementals, laughing over mochas as the trash cans fill with the bodies of their victims, whining on tv about how they are scared by the people holding signs outside of the killing yards.

Ok, so, then, now, in this mindset, which way, mortal man? You have two options. You can fight them honorably, or you can fight them dishonorably. There's a strong memetic heritage for 'they cheat but we don't because we are better' and there is likewise a strong Inglorious Bastards streak that says that we treat Nazis any way we want, because they are Nazis.

Long ago, these two forces were both strong, and competition between them determined which way the movement would go at any given time. Sometimes you'd get dirty, sometimes you'd high road it. W/ever.

The internet, here as everywhere, killed the 'high road' argument to death. It greatly increased the bandwidth, and the frequency of inner movement arguments, and brought them out where the public could see them. The internet shines its blessing on exactly one of these schools of thought, zero points for working out which one it is.

Now the 'follow the laws of war vs Isis, because that's who we are' crowd were prey. Every atrocity, every time the other side low roaded, that's just another opportunity for the extremists to decry your softness. You lose the internal battle that you might once have won, when it's carried out over X. You say something about how the pro choice crew may disagree with us on one position, but they are also Americans and-

Top rated reply: Fart emoji with link to pile of dead fetuses. Second reply: Link to Project Veritas recording of goblins cackling about how many new ways they have discovered to kill babies and how no one can ever make them stop.

The main point here is that the alternative equivalent thing doesn't happen. When John Extremist is like 'women who do abortions should all go to double jail', you can't rely on the internet to do similar dunks, just because the 'less extreme but still pro life' response won't get any upclicks. His top response will be from a pro choicer, pointing out that there are 5 restraining orders against him and that his face is birth control.

So, the first generation pro internet, not in birth order but in career succession, is uniformly more militant, less compromising. Sure. But surely that alone won't-

Nope, not done. The same dynamics apply to their successors! The next Tucker Carlson is Logan Paul. The next GWB is Donald Trump. At every stage, the internal debate is won by the more extreme person, and the moderates fall in line because the alternative is Kamala Harris, the baby killing fascist.

This is eating every movement alive, it's just most obvious in the abortion discussion, because the two sides started with the lowest possible opinion of one another. Preexisting baseline regard (imagine the guys who want 3% tax and those who want 4 sending dead baby pics at one another) delays things, but doesn't stop it. (AI pause and growth people routinely accuse the other of, you guessed it, seeking genocide. Weird how that's where abortion, regulating a technology, immigration, foreign policy and commercial restrictions all end up, huh?)

There's no fix because the poison is dripping out of the medium. You can't do a modern movement over phone calls and letters, so you can't escape this dynamic. The appeal of extremists is deep in human nature (points over to LW, which had so many posts about how bad it would be to get culty and then spawned a murder cult), and it's exaggerated by the dynamics of forum/social media posting. Unless/until the technology shifts to something that doesn't favor the worst, we'll get the worst.

Slatestarcodex had a great post, a long while back, about how incentives are the grooves cut in the ground, and you can look at them and tell where the water will go long before it rains. That's very true. The incentives for modern political movements are exactly what they look like, and they are graven into the fabric of bluesky and parler alike. The reason our leaders are cretins is that we carefully picked them over the decent ones. The water will keep flowing in this way until there are new grooves. Scooping it over in other directions will fail.

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