"I personally enjoy novels where people pine after each other helplessly for thirty years while refusing to give any hint of their interest [. . .] Similarly, you should strive to avoid falling in love with your family’s ancient enemy, trying to redeem war criminals with the power of love, getting unexpectedly pregnant by strange billionaires, or pretending to date someone for contrived bet or inheritance reasons."
concept: a dating app where you can only do one of the above.
This is amazing. It distills and expands upon every single detail about the book that creeped me out back when I read it, and which I yelled to my friends constantly about as it grew in popularity. Thank you for putting into a coherent argument something that I'd only be able to articulate in outbursts of annoyance whenever the book comes up.
"This is a real problem, I’ve seen it a lot, and if Conflict Is Not Abuse were actually about this I would love it and recommend it to all my friends."
If you wrote this book, I would totally buy it and recommend it to all *my* friends. :)
Amazing review, and thank you for making it so that I never have to suffer through it myself!
Ok but you put a lot of words in her mouth here, which is while considering the oddessy long quotes you’ve included. The book has issues, I don’t like her either tbh (as a writer, since I don’t know her). You say some inconsistent things here. You stand up for people with certain mental health conditions and then imply that people who push small boundaries always push big boundaries. That is some black and white thinking that leads to mentally ill people like me and you who have borderline being ostracized. I have never pushed a big boundary, I have lost the line of small ones during a bpd fueled episode. I have also since learned from that, realized how bad it is, and have changed as a person. I sent emails I shouldn’t, and I have also been terribly abused and never laid a hand on another. It’s really offensive honestly to imply that symptoms of a mental illness like having porous boundaries means you are an abuser. How can you be pissed at Sarah for saying the same thing you implied in different words? Yeah she definitely has a victim mindset. Sounds like you might too. There is a happy medium between this weird post and her weird book.
Having the privilege of being able to learn healthy boundaries doesn’t mean those who are displaying symptoms of their abuse who haven’t learned yet are evil people who will rape and abuse you. That’s absolutely insane to say. You have to have a piss poor understanding of abuse and trauma cycles to think that “good” people don’t have this symptom after they’ve been abused. If you’re a “good” victim, you just lay down and show your belly? Just skip the stages of grief like anger and denial? You think that every person who’s been traumatized will someday have the chance to address it? If someone literally abuses you, that’s a line in the sand for all of us and it cannot be crossed. If someone has symptoms of PTSD, BPD, you certainly don’t need us in your life if you can’t handle a friendship with someone. And if someone you love needs healing and won’t get it and you can’t be around that anymore, that’s obviously normal and fine. But to say that people displaying symptoms like a lack of communication boundaries are always going to sexually assault you is so insulting to those of us who are fighting through the stages of grief after being sexually assaulted, and we don’t always act pretty. I’m not mad at anyone for being mad at me for not getting help soon enough. Good people aren’t perfect because perfect people don’t exist.
I think, broadly, because people need some way to articulate the steelmanned version and grab onto the book because it serves as a magic totem that expresses that version for them by its sheer existence. Regardless of what's actually written on the pages.
> Me: well, I guess that I found it annoying when you said that my favorite painting is a piece of shit because a child could paint it.
> Them: Let us debate whether abstract art is real art! Once you realize that I’m right, you won’t be annoyed by my trenchant art criticism.
You know you're dealing with a sea lion when ... they say /that/ instead of good ol' escalating their original demeaning behavior and deriding you for being too sensitive.
I haven't read Conflict Is Not Abuse, but I basically endorse everything you've said here about healthy and unhealthy relationship norms. It all seems common sense, and whatever the book quotes are going on about don't.
"I personally enjoy novels where people pine after each other helplessly for thirty years while refusing to give any hint of their interest [. . .] Similarly, you should strive to avoid falling in love with your family’s ancient enemy, trying to redeem war criminals with the power of love, getting unexpectedly pregnant by strange billionaires, or pretending to date someone for contrived bet or inheritance reasons."
concept: a dating app where you can only do one of the above.
This is amazing. It distills and expands upon every single detail about the book that creeped me out back when I read it, and which I yelled to my friends constantly about as it grew in popularity. Thank you for putting into a coherent argument something that I'd only be able to articulate in outbursts of annoyance whenever the book comes up.
"This is a real problem, I’ve seen it a lot, and if Conflict Is Not Abuse were actually about this I would love it and recommend it to all my friends."
If you wrote this book, I would totally buy it and recommend it to all *my* friends. :)
Amazing review, and thank you for making it so that I never have to suffer through it myself!
Amazing review! Also...
"To this very day I have people saying I married and had children with Scott Alexander, a guy I dated for a year and a half when I was 22."
Wouldn't have guessed that. Would _not_ have guessed that.
Ok but you put a lot of words in her mouth here, which is while considering the oddessy long quotes you’ve included. The book has issues, I don’t like her either tbh (as a writer, since I don’t know her). You say some inconsistent things here. You stand up for people with certain mental health conditions and then imply that people who push small boundaries always push big boundaries. That is some black and white thinking that leads to mentally ill people like me and you who have borderline being ostracized. I have never pushed a big boundary, I have lost the line of small ones during a bpd fueled episode. I have also since learned from that, realized how bad it is, and have changed as a person. I sent emails I shouldn’t, and I have also been terribly abused and never laid a hand on another. It’s really offensive honestly to imply that symptoms of a mental illness like having porous boundaries means you are an abuser. How can you be pissed at Sarah for saying the same thing you implied in different words? Yeah she definitely has a victim mindset. Sounds like you might too. There is a happy medium between this weird post and her weird book.
Having the privilege of being able to learn healthy boundaries doesn’t mean those who are displaying symptoms of their abuse who haven’t learned yet are evil people who will rape and abuse you. That’s absolutely insane to say. You have to have a piss poor understanding of abuse and trauma cycles to think that “good” people don’t have this symptom after they’ve been abused. If you’re a “good” victim, you just lay down and show your belly? Just skip the stages of grief like anger and denial? You think that every person who’s been traumatized will someday have the chance to address it? If someone literally abuses you, that’s a line in the sand for all of us and it cannot be crossed. If someone has symptoms of PTSD, BPD, you certainly don’t need us in your life if you can’t handle a friendship with someone. And if someone you love needs healing and won’t get it and you can’t be around that anymore, that’s obviously normal and fine. But to say that people displaying symptoms like a lack of communication boundaries are always going to sexually assault you is so insulting to those of us who are fighting through the stages of grief after being sexually assaulted, and we don’t always act pretty. I’m not mad at anyone for being mad at me for not getting help soon enough. Good people aren’t perfect because perfect people don’t exist.
Wow.
How does a book like that have so many fans?
I think, broadly, because people need some way to articulate the steelmanned version and grab onto the book because it serves as a magic totem that expresses that version for them by its sheer existence. Regardless of what's actually written on the pages.
She's adorable. I love this.
'Letting people schedule dates with you by harassing you' is the kind of thing you can write a good yuri novel about.
a long time ago I took CINA out of the library but didn't get around to reading it. I seem to have saved myself some time and headache.
> Me: well, I guess that I found it annoying when you said that my favorite painting is a piece of shit because a child could paint it.
> Them: Let us debate whether abstract art is real art! Once you realize that I’m right, you won’t be annoyed by my trenchant art criticism.
You know you're dealing with a sea lion when ... they say /that/ instead of good ol' escalating their original demeaning behavior and deriding you for being too sensitive.
Thank you for doing the work. I read a small part of the book, found I was getting upset, and bailed out on it without doing analysis.
I haven't read Conflict Is Not Abuse, but I basically endorse everything you've said here about healthy and unhealthy relationship norms. It all seems common sense, and whatever the book quotes are going on about don't.
😳