> Unfortunately, shy people of the world psych themselves out about this. They don’t believe anyone could actually find them attractive. And they end up accidentally expressing a lack of interest in the people they’re talking to.
This isn't really accidental in any way. If you have a culture which pushes memes like "objectification of women bad", then either no one is going to listen to that message (in which case, why say it?), or a bunch of males (and lesbians I guess) _will_ listen, infer that perceiving women as sex objects (which is what 'attraction' is - obviously women are also human, but there's also _that_) is considered objectionable, be unable to actually alter their perception probably, but be able to suppress any possible reactions, as if they were asexual.
"THE TOUCH BARRIER HAS BEEN BROKEN!!!! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN!!!!!"
If you're male and low status, and the other person is female, it means, "Watch out—you may still be accused of harassing or assaulting her, get regularly beaten up in prison for the unmanly deeds you've been accused of, and rot in there".
I feel like I've had the opposite problem: a lot of the time when I am trying to discourage someone they assume I'm just shy or not picking up on the hints they're dropping. I particularly remember one time in college where it eventually escalated to the point where I was literally shouting "GO AWAY!" at someone and she was just laughing and putting her hand on my shoulder (something I'd repeatedly told her made me uncomfortable) because she figured obviously I must just not get that she was flirting with me.
> It may help to come up with a set of inoffensive scripts.
I wonder if pre-computing generic conversation templates helps. Maybe also autobiographical info. I really frequently struggle to say anything in response to sth someone else asked or said.
This is probably a dumb question, but is it possible that a lot of shy nerds are "accidentally rejecting" people because the coping mechanisms they developed to cope with childhood trauma have become maladaptive now that they're adults? If so, how is any of this advice helpful, rather than an expression of your own legitimate frustration?
I used to be a Shy Nerd™ with some of those maladaptive coping mechanisms, like second guessing whether someone I'm talking to is covertly working up to make fun of me, etc, and the suggestions in this post feel like gentle advice for low-risk practice overcoming shy nerd coping mechanisms
- I am a shy person who is attracted (romantically and platonically) mainly to fellow shy people, who of course rarely take the initiative in forming connections, so... I have to do it???? What???? 😖
Some of these “shy” people are likely neurodivergent and probably don’t pick up on subtle cues at all - or, filter those cues through their previous experiences of “they’re not actually into me, they’re just being nice, etc”
I’ve had people give me literally 101% of the signs of flirting you mentioned here and then when I asked them out they said they weren’t interested in me. So I absolutely don’t trust “flirting” cues. Some people just have flirty personalities and are a little bit reckless with them IMO.
So your comment here:
“In general, people do not approach someone romantically by going up to them and saying “you are wildly attractive and I want to take you out and then make sweet sweet love to you all night and then elope to Vegas and be married by Elvis in a drive-through chapel.””
Like okay obviously don’t put it *that* way, but if your attempts at flirting aren’t getting through but they don’t seem to hate your attention either - PLEASE JUST USE YOUR WORDS. And please be *explicitly* clear. Don’t ask them to do an ambiguous activity where they don’t know what your intent is. Say you want to take them on a *date*. Tell them you think they’re cute and you’re interested in dating them. Nothing would make a shy or ND person happier than just being told what you’re thinking so we don’t have to read or interpret your cues - because we either can’t, or we’re terrified that we are once again reading those cues incorrectly and not looking forward to embarrassing ourselves again.
ive definitely done this (also just with friendships). im not AS bad as i used to be (response to someone saying they like me internally was 'you're obviously trying to prank me') but i still do the 'im too nervous to know what to say so i'll just shut up' which im sure has pushed people away.
> Unfortunately, shy people of the world psych themselves out about this. They don’t believe anyone could actually find them attractive. And they end up accidentally expressing a lack of interest in the people they’re talking to.
This isn't really accidental in any way. If you have a culture which pushes memes like "objectification of women bad", then either no one is going to listen to that message (in which case, why say it?), or a bunch of males (and lesbians I guess) _will_ listen, infer that perceiving women as sex objects (which is what 'attraction' is - obviously women are also human, but there's also _that_) is considered objectionable, be unable to actually alter their perception probably, but be able to suppress any possible reactions, as if they were asexual.
"THE TOUCH BARRIER HAS BEEN BROKEN!!!! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN!!!!!"
If you're male and low status, and the other person is female, it means, "Watch out—you may still be accused of harassing or assaulting her, get regularly beaten up in prison for the unmanly deeds you've been accused of, and rot in there".
I feel like I've had the opposite problem: a lot of the time when I am trying to discourage someone they assume I'm just shy or not picking up on the hints they're dropping. I particularly remember one time in college where it eventually escalated to the point where I was literally shouting "GO AWAY!" at someone and she was just laughing and putting her hand on my shoulder (something I'd repeatedly told her made me uncomfortable) because she figured obviously I must just not get that she was flirting with me.
> It may help to come up with a set of inoffensive scripts.
I wonder if pre-computing generic conversation templates helps. Maybe also autobiographical info. I really frequently struggle to say anything in response to sth someone else asked or said.
This is probably a dumb question, but is it possible that a lot of shy nerds are "accidentally rejecting" people because the coping mechanisms they developed to cope with childhood trauma have become maladaptive now that they're adults? If so, how is any of this advice helpful, rather than an expression of your own legitimate frustration?
I used to be a Shy Nerd™ with some of those maladaptive coping mechanisms, like second guessing whether someone I'm talking to is covertly working up to make fun of me, etc, and the suggestions in this post feel like gentle advice for low-risk practice overcoming shy nerd coping mechanisms
- helpful post, thank you
- I am a shy person who is attracted (romantically and platonically) mainly to fellow shy people, who of course rarely take the initiative in forming connections, so... I have to do it???? What???? 😖
Some of these “shy” people are likely neurodivergent and probably don’t pick up on subtle cues at all - or, filter those cues through their previous experiences of “they’re not actually into me, they’re just being nice, etc”
I’ve had people give me literally 101% of the signs of flirting you mentioned here and then when I asked them out they said they weren’t interested in me. So I absolutely don’t trust “flirting” cues. Some people just have flirty personalities and are a little bit reckless with them IMO.
So your comment here:
“In general, people do not approach someone romantically by going up to them and saying “you are wildly attractive and I want to take you out and then make sweet sweet love to you all night and then elope to Vegas and be married by Elvis in a drive-through chapel.””
Like okay obviously don’t put it *that* way, but if your attempts at flirting aren’t getting through but they don’t seem to hate your attention either - PLEASE JUST USE YOUR WORDS. And please be *explicitly* clear. Don’t ask them to do an ambiguous activity where they don’t know what your intent is. Say you want to take them on a *date*. Tell them you think they’re cute and you’re interested in dating them. Nothing would make a shy or ND person happier than just being told what you’re thinking so we don’t have to read or interpret your cues - because we either can’t, or we’re terrified that we are once again reading those cues incorrectly and not looking forward to embarrassing ourselves again.
ive definitely done this (also just with friendships). im not AS bad as i used to be (response to someone saying they like me internally was 'you're obviously trying to prank me') but i still do the 'im too nervous to know what to say so i'll just shut up' which im sure has pushed people away.
have thought about this numerous times since reading it, checking myself to see if i'm doing any of the things in the post. thank you!
I LOVE THIS SO MUCH. NEEDED THIS. THANK U FOR WRITING IT
"messages Shy Person on Discord"
bro your audience is NGMI