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Maeveam's avatar

I count mussels and oysters as meat-plants, but not clams. Clams are capable of motility! My reasoning for this as the relevant boundary here is the educated guess that 'pain is evolutionarily expensive'. If an animal can't move, it probably doesn't have a sophisticated pain response. If an animal *can* move then I'm inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt. Still, their neurons number in the thousands so this isn't exactly an issue of serious concern to me, there's only so much pain that can be going on in a system that simple.

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Isaac King's avatar

I think the caring about the individual vs. groups difference is a pretty fundamental one.

Many political causes are not saying "I care more about people in this category", but rather "I care about this category as its own object". This is why you get people so concerned about "the great replacement" and genocide, while much less concerned about individual murder of larger numbers of people in larger demographic groups.

And the same applies to non-humans. A typical environmentalist finds the death and suffering of millions of pigeons basically irrelevant, but the extinction of pigeons would be a big deal. Thus we get these laws about how companies must protect the existence of *species*, but are free to harm as many *animals* as they want.

A big part of effective altruists' "weirdness" comes from not caring about preserving groups at all, and they focus only on the largest numbers of sufferers. These naturally tend to come from the most common species, which normal people care the *least* about.

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